points: 48

When people ask why I have a problem with religion, it's hard to come up with a single answer...

featuredreligion

by fabsjr420

submitted January 17th 2012

185 comments
what do you think? let everyone know!
When people ask why I have a problem with religion, it's hard to come up with a single answer...
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comments (185)
jesus christ
6 years ago
goddamnit
6 years ago
my god...
6 years ago
Yes?
6 years ago
Im ok with religion, we all need a crutch to get through this life, if you say you dont your heads in the sand or your a lair, i pray every day, dont matter if their is a god or not, keeps me humble.
3 years ago
Nice fucking tag...If I had a laptop I could use this as some good reading material when I shit
6 years ago
which one specifically
6 years ago
the original one that said long :P
6 years ago
fuck all forms of religion.
6 years ago
+ fuck patriotism
6 years ago
I believe in god and i dont discriminate, i have gay friends that i love to death and be there best man at there wedding i helped one of my friends come out to his parents and be comfortable hugging his partner in public, i knocked out 2 guys that called them a faggot. (i knocked them out not just for the insult but cus i dont like people bullying my friends) but i still pray to god and ask for forgiveness for my sins, i also use religion's guid lines whitch is to be kind and not to steal or be a murderior. and i know i made lots of spelling errors and what do you expect i dropped out of high school and have a baby on the way...but hey my fams rich so i dont give a fuck lol
6 years ago
oh good luck on your surgery ill pray for you lol
6 years ago
you dont need a dumb fucking book to tell you that murdering is wrong and to be kind... do you?
apparently you haven't actually read whatever bible it is you claim to believe in, because multiple places in it talk about how gays are an abomination in the eyes of 'the lord'
but then again it says its ok to have slaves, and beat your wife... so... hardly a book i would want to fucking base my life on...
the fact is, religion doesn't actually do anything good except give people something to 'look forward to', and tries to give them a set of rules in order for them to get 'there'.
people with logic will understand that you don't need rules to be good nor do you have to believe in 'something bigger' because believing in fantasy creatures doesn't really help your daily life... and if anything it is used as a crutch more than anything... 'ill pray for you'
what the is that going to do? nothing obviously... you should start putting your 'faith' into things to help yourself, one you should start reading more books including the bible, fix your spelling and grammar and better yourself mentally, don't rely on your fucking rich family to take care of your ignorant ass...

i could use the excuse that i was a dropout as well, but i don't.. because its a lame ass fucking excuse and completely ridiculous. you are only as smart or as dumb as you are willing to be, and apparently you feel that its ok to be stupid, which is NOT ok...

the reason there is still religion is because of people like you who are ignorant and breed more ignorant babies and have been doing it for 2 thousand years.... time to fucking stop the cycle. pick up some fucking books, maybe go to night school.. just fucking do something.. trust in logic.. not in fucking imaginary 'gods' and 'faith'
6 years ago
How the fuck are you pregnant, jsexy7?
6 years ago
your right yak i take what i said back to a certain extent, i didnt read the bible ever in my life, the reason im nice and etc. is because of my parent raising me.. and i only said the rich family thing to sound like a dush, cus talking like that seems to be popular on this site. i dropped out because i was beatin up all the time buy guys cus i was a fat ginger. i wish i where more intelegent but im better with my hands fixing and building things, and i believe not in the bible but god. and my parents interpritation of him. i need to feel like theres something after death so i dont fear death....everyone has there process in life so they can have a normal life and not be afraid.
6 years ago
my girl is preggo
6 years ago
You procreated? Dear. Fucking. God.

Pun intended.
6 years ago

get to know me better im not what your creating in your mind.
6 years ago
"and i only said the rich family thing to sound like a dush, cus talking like that seems to be popular on this site" Hahaha!
6 years ago
"but then again it says its ok to have slaves, and beat your wife... so... hardly a book i would want to fucking base my life on..." ---yak

Wow. What a square.
6 years ago
tl;dr
6 years ago
After this sub, you're my god, dw.
6 years ago
huh?
6 years ago
i bow to rubiss, the goddess of creation
6 years ago
"Nigerian Cartoon Riot" has a nice ring to it. Good band name.
6 years ago
I thought "Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn" was a good one too, but thats just another name for the Beastie Boys.
6 years ago
I struggled with faith and religion for years in my teens. It wasn't until I heard a line from Christopher Hitchens several years back that made me fully realize how ridiculous and retarded belief in God is. It was, "How can a perfect creator will humanity into existence as a flawed creature, then order us on pain of eternal torture to be well again?"

Any fellow atheists got a good enlightening story?
6 years ago
I'm neither a Hitchens-basher nor an evangelical, but Hitchens had a pretty narrow interpretation of Christian doctrine.

Why wouldn't or couldn't a perfect God create non-perfect creatures?.
6 years ago
Glad to see he helped someone to shake off his religious believes ... I always ask myself if it has any use to debate ... but apparently it has. No enlightening story's though, just the good advice to read some stuff of Dawkins, Harris, Dennet, ...
6 years ago
My Pops is a geologist and staunch atheist so I've grown up with him mocking religion and religious people. I feel sorry for people who believe in god and heaven. They don't have the brainpower to understand how life and the universe can exist without a creator.

I don't blame them for wanting to believe though - it must be quite comforting to think you're going to end up in some cloud paradise at the end of your life. But the reality is that when you die it will feel exactly the same as it did before you were born. There will be NOTHING.
6 years ago
lets see, first 10 years of my life was spent not going to church. The next 8 I spent going to a baptist church. I got to college, read candide and various other forums and such online. And that was that
6 years ago
I never came to my senses, I always had them.

Anyone who follows an organised religion simply lacks common sense. Simple as that.
6 years ago
Third generation Atheist here. I have always wondered how you can actually believe. I got to agree with OJ if you just think about it you can only come to the conclusion there is/are no god(s).
6 years ago
for the church, it's about indoctrinating kids at a young age. It's similar to getting kids to believe in santa clause.
6 years ago
Another thing that makes me sick, and yet have to live with. It's making that concession or having non stop fights with family. I comfort myself with the thought that one day they will know and I will tell them never ever to let them fool themselves by crap like that !
6 years ago
There will always be a % of the global population who follow a god. Which one that is simply depends on who gets to them first.
6 years ago
First generation Agnostic, borderline Nihilist, 100% Existentialist.
6 years ago
and is that why your avatar is the dude?
6 years ago
The Dude abides.
6 years ago
I read the book "The Egyptian" and it was a story of an ancient Egyptian doctor called "Sinuhe" he was a good man and believed in gods, but then at the end of his life realized it was all lies.
That was my teenage years. maybe 15. I also was angry. My life sucked even thou I was a good religious boy, same as my family.
6 years ago
well iam christian and iam glad to be. but i dont go to church cus like a sailer drink and i have a baby on the way and not married oh and i believe in gay marrage, but im kind dont do drugs dont steal hardly lie great boyfriend to my girl and soon to be baby.. and iam shure thats from my parents raising me christian the guid lines are to be kind and loveing to everyone and to respect everyone thats how i was raised. except for beaners i was jumped by beaners they deserve horrible lives and im not talken about mexicans im talken about beaners.
6 years ago
cuss*

6 years ago
you are a sinner and will be going to hell after spending thousands of years in purgatory based on what you say.... maybe read your 'bible' once for fuck sake...
or maybe you are just trying to troll... in that case.. well.. just shut up ;/
6 years ago
excon has it pretty much spot on..
ive had religious people say they pity me because i dont believe in anything after you die, and i say i pity them because they live hoping and praying for something better while i live my life knowing happily it will be my only one.

ive done quite a bit of 'soul searching' since my mom got hit by the semi and is still in the hospital, and no matter what i can't bring myself to 'pray' or anything like that.. i actually find it kind of ridiculous.. i can't hate the people who msg me or phone or talk to me and say they will pray for her and shit, but i know for a fact she WOULDNT want that, and it almost seems to me that some of the people just do it in order to make themselves feel better.... which ... well.. is not how i believe people should be.. id rather spend my time figuring out exactly what happened and what they are doing and if there is more that can be done to ACTUALLY help her rather than hope that an imaginary creature is going to help her...
6 years ago
i was simply posting a differant view of this subject bro, i believe in god but dont think hes a dick, the bible prob got twisted over the years anyway.
6 years ago
.....so why waste my time reading it when a buntch of people who put it in english prob put there own twist on it
6 years ago
Let's imagine that I tell you the following story:

There is a man who lives at the North Pole.
He lives there with his wife and a bunch of elves.
During the year, he and the elves build toys.
Then, on Christmas Eve, he loads up a sack with all the toys.
He puts the sack in his sleigh.
He hitches up eight (or possibly nine) flying reindeer.
He then flies from house to house, landing on the rooftops of each one.
He gets out with his sack and climbs down the chimney.
He leaves toys for the children of the household.
He climbs back up the chimney, gets back in his sleigh, and flies to the next house.
He does this all around the world in one night.
Then he flies back to the North Pole to repeat the cycle next year.

This, of course, is the story of Santa Claus.

But let's say that I am an adult, and I am your friend, and I reveal to you that I believe that this story is true. I believe it with all my heart. And I try to talk about it with you and convert you to believe it as I do.

What would you think of me? You would think that I am delusional, and rightly so.

Why do you think that I am delusional? It is because you know that Santa is imaginary. The story is a total fairy tale. No matter how much I talk to you about Santa, you are not going to believe that Santa is real. Flying reindeer, for example, are make-believe. The dictionary defines delusion as, "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence." That definition fits perfectly.

Since you are my friend, you might try to help me realize that my belief in Santa is a delusion. The way that you would try to do that is by asking me some questions. For example, you might say to me:

"But how can the sleigh carry enough toys for everyone in the world?" I say to you that the sleigh is magical. It has the ability to do this intrinsically.

"How does Santa get into houses and apartments that don't have chimneys?" I say that Santa can make chimneys appear, as shown to all of us in the movie The Santa Clause.

"How does Santa get down the chimney if there's a fire in the fireplace?" I say that Santa has a special flame-resistant suit, and it cleans itself too.

"Why doesn't the security system detect Santa?" Santa is invisible to security systems.

"How can Santa travel fast enough to visit every child in one night?" Santa is timeless.

"How can Santa know whether every child has been bad or good?" Santa is omniscient.

"Why are the toys distributed so unevenly? Why does Santa deliver more toys to rich kids, even if they are bad, than he ever gives to poor kids?" There is no way for us to understand the mysteries of Santa because we are mere mortals, but Santa has his reasons. For example, perhaps poor children would be unable to handle a flood of expensive electronic toys. How would they afford the batteries? So Santa spares them this burden.

These are all quite logical questions that you have asked. I have answered all of them for you. I am wondering why you can't see what I see, and you are wondering how I can be so insane.

Why didn't my answers satisfy you? Why do you still know that I am delusional? It is because my answers have done nothing but confirm your assessment. My answers are ridiculous. In order to answer your questions, I invented, completely out of thin air, a magical sleigh, a magical self-cleaning suit, magical chimneys, "timelessness" and magical invisibility. You don't believe my answers because you know that I am making this stuff up. The invalidating evidence is voluminous.

Now let me show you another example...

Another Example

Imagine that I tell you the following story:

I was in my room one night.
Suddenly, my room became exceedingly bright.
Next thing I know there is an angel in my room.
He tells me an amazing story.
He says that there is a set of ancient golden plates buried in the side of a hill in New York.
On them are the books of a lost race of Jewish people who inhabited North America.
These plates bear inscriptions in the foreign language of these people.
Eventually the angel leads me to the plates and lets me take them home.
Even though the plates are in a foreign language, the angel helps me to decipher and translate them.
Then the plates are taken up into heaven, never to be seen again.
I have the book that I translated from the plates. It tells of amazing things -- an entire civilization of Jewish people living here in the United States 2,000 years ago.
And the resurrected Jesus came and visited these people!
I also showed the golden plates to a number of real people who are my eye witnesses, and I have their signed attestations that they did, in fact, see and touch the plates before the plates were taken up into heaven.

Now, what would you say to me about this story? Even though I do have a book, in English, that tells the story of this lost Jewish civilization, and even though I do have the signed attestations, what do you think? This story sounds nutty, doesn't it?

You would ask some obvious questions. For example, at the very simplest level, you might ask, "Where are the ruins and artifacts from this Jewish civilization in America?" The book transcribed from the plates talks about millions of Jewish people doing all kinds of things in America. They have horses and oxen and chariots and armor and large cities. What happened to all of this? I answer simply: it is all out there, but we have not found it yet. "Not one city? Not one chariot wheel? Not one helmet?" you ask. No, we haven't found a single bit of evidence, but it is out there somewhere. You ask me dozens of questions like this, and I have answers for them all.

Most people would assume that I am delusional if I told them this story. They would assume that there were no plates and no angel, and that I had written the book myself. Most people would ignore the attestations -- having people attest to it means nothing, really. I could have paid the attesters off, or I could have fabricated them. Most people would reject my story without question.

What's interesting is that there are millions of people who actually do believe this story of the angel and the plates and the book and the Jewish people living in North America 2,000 years ago. Those millions of people are members of the Mormon Church, headquartered in Salt Lake City, Utah. The person who told this incredible story was a man named Joseph Smith, and he lived in the United States in the early 1800s. He told his story, and recorded what he "translated from the plates", in the Book of Mormon.

If you meet a Mormon and ask them about this story, they can spend hours talking to you about it. They can answer every question you have. Yet the 5.99 billion of us who are not Mormons can see with total clarity that the Mormons are delusional. It is as simple as that. You and I both know with 100% certainty that the Mormon story is no different from the story of Santa. And we are correct in our assessment. The invalidating evidence is voluminous.

Another example

Imagine that I tell you this story:

A man was sitting in a cave minding his own business.
A very bright flash of light appeared.
A voice spoke out one word: "Read!" The man felt like he was being squeezed to death. This happened several times.
Then the man asked, "What should I read?"
The voice said, "Read in the name of your Lord who created humans from a clinging [zygote]. Read for your Lord is the most generous. He taught people by the pen what they didn't know before."
The man ran home to his wife.
While running home, he saw the huge face of an angel in the sky. The angel told the man that he was to be the messenger of God. The angel also identified himself as Gabriel.
At home that night, the angel appeared to the man in his dreams.
Gabriel appeared to the man over and over again. Sometimes it was in dreams, sometimes during the day as "revelations in his heart," sometimes preceded by a painful ringing in his ears (and then the verses would flow from Gabriel right out of the man), and sometimes Gabriel would appear in the flesh and speak. Scribes wrote down everything the man said.
Then, one night about 11 years after the first encounter with Gabriel, Gabriel appeared to the man with a magical horse. The man got on the horse, and the horse took him to Jerusalem. Then the winged horse took the man up to the seven layers of heaven. The man was able to actually see heaven and meet and talk with people there. Then Gabriel brought the man back to earth.
The man proved that he had actually been to Jerusalem on the winged horse by accurately answering questions about buildings and landmarks there.
The man continued receiving the revelations from Gabriel for 23 years, and then they stopped. All of the revelations were recorded by the scribes in a book which we still have today.
[Source: "Understanding Islam" by Yahiya Emerick, Alpha press, 2002]

What do you make of this story? If you have never heard the story before, you may find it to be nonsensical in the same way that you feel about the stories of the golden plates and Santa. You would especially feel that way once you read the book that was supposedly transcribed from Gabriel, because much of it is opaque. The dreams, the horse, the angel, the ascension, and the appearances of the angel in the flesh -- you would dismiss them all because it is all imaginary.

But you need to be careful. This story is the foundation of the Muslim religion, practiced by more than a billion people around the world. The man is named Mohammed, and the book is the Koran (also spelled Qur'an or Qur'aan). This is the sacred story of the Koran's creation and the revelation of Allah to mankind.

Despite the fact that a billion Muslims profess some level of belief in this story, people outside the Muslim faith consider the story to be imaginary. No one believes this story because this story is a fairy tale. They consider the Koran to be a book written by a man and nothing more. A winged horse that flew to heaven? That is imaginary -- as imaginary as flying reindeer.

If you are a Christian, please take a moment right now to look back at the Mormon and Muslim stories. Why is it so easy for you to look at these stories and see that they are imaginary fairy tales? How do you know, with complete certainty, that Mormons and Muslims are delusional? You know these things for the same reason you know that Santa is imaginary. There is no evidence for any of it. The stories involve magical things like angels and winged horses, hallucinations, dreams. Horses cannot fly -- we all know that. And even if they could, where would the horse fly to? The vacuum of space? Or is the horse somehow "dematerialized" and then "rematerialized" in heaven? If so, those processes are made up too. Every bit of it is imaginary. We all know that.

An unbiased observer can see how imaginary these three stories are. In addition, Muslims can see that Mormons are delusional, Mormons can see that Muslims are delusional, and Christians can see that both Mormons and Muslims are delusional.

One final example

Now let me tell you one final story:

God inseminated a virgin named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world.
Mary and her fiancé, Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to the Son of God.
God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby.
In a dream God told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then God stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel in an attempt to kill Jesus.
As a man, God's son claimed that he was God incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said.
This man performed many miracles. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God.
But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion.
His body was placed in a tomb.
But three days later, the tomb was empty.
And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places.
Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of God the father almighty, never to be seen again.
Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc.
This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die.
The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story.

This, of course, is the story of Jesus. Do you believe this story? If you are a Christian, you probably do. I could ask you questions for hours and you will have answers for every one of them, in just the same way that I had answers for all of the Santa questions that my friend asked me in Example 1. You cannot understand how anyone could question any of it, because it is so obvious to you.

Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, the Christian story is completely imaginary.

How do the four billion non-Christians know, with complete certainty, that the Christian story is imaginary? Because the Christian story is just like the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. There is the magical insemination, the magical star, the magical dreams, the magical miracles, the magical resurrection, the magical ascension and so on. People outside the Christian faith look at the Christian story and note these facts:

The miracles are supposed to "prove" that Jesus is God, but, predictably, these miracles left behind no tangible evidence for us to examine and scientifically verify today. They all involved faith healings and magic tricks .

Jesus is resurrected, but, predictably, he does not appear to anyone today.

Jesus ascended into heaven and answers our prayers, but, predictably, when we pray to him nothing happens. We can statistically analyse prayer and find that prayers are never answered.

The book where Matthew, Mark, Luke and John make their attestations does exist, but, predictably, it is chock full of problems and contradictions .

And so on.

In other words, the Christian story is a fairly tale, just like the other three examples we have examined.

Now, look at what is happening inside your mind at this moment. I am using solid, verifiable evidence to show you that the Christian story is imaginary. Your rational mind can see the evidence. Four billion non-Christians would be happy to confirm for you that the Christian story is imaginary. However, if you are a practicing Christian, you can probably feel your "religious mind" overriding both your rational mind and your common sense as we speak. Why? Why were you able to use your common sense to so easily reject the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story, but when it comes to the Christian story, which is just as imaginary, you are not?

Try, just for a moment, to look at Christianity with the same amount of healthy skepticism that you used when approaching the stories of Santa, Joseph Smith and Mohammed. Use your common sense to ask some very simple questions of yourself:

Is there any physical evidence that Jesus existed? - No. He left no trace. His body "ascended into heaven." He wrote nothing down. None of his "miracles" left any permanent evidence. There is, literally, nothing.

Is there any reason to believe that Jesus actually performed these miracles, or that he rose from the dead, or that he ascended into heaven? - There is no more of a reason to believe this than there is to believe that Joseph Smith found the golden plates hidden in New York, or that Mohammed rode on a magical winged horse to heaven. Probably less of a reason, given that the record of Jesus' life is 2,000 years old, while that of Joseph Smith is less than 200 years old.

You mean to tell me that I am supposed to believe this story of Jesus, and there is no proof or evidence to go by beyond a few attestations in the New Testament of a Bible that is provably meaningless? - Yes, you are supposed to believe it. You are supposed to take it on "faith."

No one (besides little kids) believes in Santa Claus. No one outside the Mormon church believes Joseph Smith's story. No one outside the Muslim faith believes the story of Mohammed and Gabriel and the winged horse. No one outside the Christian faith believes in Jesus' divinity, miracles, resurrection, etc.

Therefore, the question I would ask you to consider right now is simple: Why is it that human beings can detect fairy tales with complete certainty when those fairy tales come from other faiths, but they cannot detect the fairy tales that underpin their own faith? Why do they believe their chosen fairy tale with unrelenting passion and reject the others as nonsense? For example:

Christians know that when the Egyptians built gigantic pyramids and mummified the bodies of their pharaohs, that it was a total waste of time -- otherwise Christians would build pyramids.

Christians know that when the Aztecs carved the heart out of a virgin and ate it, that it accomplished nothing -- otherwise Christians would kill virgins.

Christians know that when Muslims face Mecca to pray, that it is pointless -- otherwise Christians would face Mecca when they pray.

Christians know that when Jews keep meat and dairy products separate, that they are wasting their time -- otherwise the cheeseburger would not be an American obsession.

Yet, when Christians look at their own religion, they are for some reason blind. Why? And no, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Christian story is true. Your rational mind knows that with certainty, and so do four billion others. This book, if you will let it, can tell you why.

A simple experiment

If you are a Christian who believes in the power of prayer, here is a very simple experiment that will show you something very interesting about your faith.

Take a coin out of your pocket. Now pray sincerely to Ra:

Dear Ra, almighty sun god, I am going to flip this ordinary coin 50 times, and I am asking you to cause it to land heads-side-up all 50 times. In Ra's name I pray, Amen.

Now flip the coin. Chances are that you won't get past the fifth or sixth flip and the coin will land tails.

What does this mean? Most people would look at this data and conclude that Ra is imaginary. We prayed to Ra, and Ra did nothing. We can prove that Ra is imaginary (at least in the sense of prayer-answering ability) by using statistical analysis. If we flip the coin thousands of times, praying to Ra each time, we will find that the coin lands heads or tails in exact correlation with the normal laws of probability. Ra has absolutely no effect on the coin no matter how much we pray. Even if we find a thousand of Ra's most faithful believers and ask them to do the praying/flipping, the results will be the same. Therefore, as rational people, we conclude that Ra is imaginary. We look at Ra in the same way that we look at Leprechauns, Mermaids, Santa and so on. We know that people who believe in Ra are delusional.

Now I want you to try the experiment again, but this time I want you to pray to Jesus Christ instead of Ra. Pray sincerely to Jesus like this:

Dear Jesus, I know that you exist and I know that you hear and answer prayers as you promise in the Bible. I am going to flip this ordinary coin 50 times, and I am asking you to cause it to land heads-side-up all 50 times. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen.

Now flip the coin. Once again, after the fifth or sixth flip, the coin will land tails.

If we flip the coin thousands of times, praying to Jesus each time, we will find that the coin lands heads or tails in exact correlation with the normal laws of probability. It is not like there are two laws of probability -- one for Christians who pray and the other for non-Christians. There is only one law of probability because prayers have zero effect. Jesus has no effect on our planet no matter how much we pray. We can prove that conclusively using statitical analysis.

If you believe in God, watch what is happening inside your mind right now. The data is absolutely identical in both experiments. With Ra you looked at the data rationally and concluded that Ra is imaginary. But with Jesus... something else will happen. In your mind, you are already coming up with a thousand rationalizations to explain why Jesus did not answer your prayers:

It is not his will
He doesn't have time
I didn't pray the right way
I am not worthy
I do not have enough faith
I cannot test the Lord like this
It is not part of Jesus' plan for me
And on and on and on...

One rationalization that you may find yourself developing is particularly interesting. You may say to yourself: “Well, of course Jesus doesn’t answer me when I pray about a coin toss, because it is too trivial." Where did this rationalization come from? If you read what Jesus says about prayer in the Bible, Jesus does not ever say, "don't pray to me about coin tosses." Jesus clearly says he will answer your prayers, and he puts no boundaries on what you may pray for. You invented this rationalization out of thin air.

You are an expert at creating rationalizations for Jesus. The reason you are an expert is because Jesus does not answer any of your prayers. The reason why Jesus does not answer any of your prayers is because Jesus and God are imaginary.
6 years ago
BEST ANSWER EVER!!!
6 years ago
why are you so angry at me, i didnt try to convert anyone, i dont think your dilusional, i just basically said i was raised christian and im not all that bullshit in the articals, so not all christians are like that. iam glad you got that off your chest, i do come to this sight everyday and have you guys as friends on face book so i read all your guys comment and know all the convos you guys have and your diff personalitys and the one time i give a little input on subject that is at the end of my important list i have creator of mucho sucho flippen blamen me for all of religons misstakes, i mean you really let me have it look at that last comment yak did you really type that essay on why god is make believe this is obviously important to you. settle down cus it was over kill on a noob man
6 years ago
i didn't write that.. i pasted it... although i agree with everything it says... and i doubt you read it all ;/

thats why i get angry at people like you :P

little knowledge... little care about getting more knowledge
6 years ago
I doubt he read any of it.. and if he did he rationalized it as gods will..that anything doesn't sound right is a test.. kinda like god made dinosaur bones to test the faith of his followers..Because we all know dinosaurs never existed, how could they have earth is what 6000 years old..
6 years ago
Religion is demographic. If you were born in the Middle East, you'd be Muslim. If you were born in ancient Greece, you'd believe in numerous gods. Unfortunately, some folks had it indoctrinated in them when they were young, and refuse to question it.
6 years ago
and my im sorry about your mom and to your wishes will not pray for her.....and my whole fam is medical nurses and doctors, my gramps is rich cus he owns hospitals so before i would pray i would rather want to no whats wrong with my mom and how to fix it too before even thinking of god...
6 years ago
I dont like discussing religion for two reasons: 1.) Any sensible, intelligent, and strong minded human being can make up their own ideals based on both scientific fact and faith (these two things CAN be combined) when regarding religion, and therefore do not need a consensus of people to tell them what is wrong or what is right, its what you feel in your heart. 2.) I find that people who vigorously denounce the belief in a god(s) and try to disprove their existent in entirety, are just as bad as people who vigorously pronounce the belief in a god(s) and try to prove their existent in entirety. We are all the same, we are just looking for answers in different ways. I believe that all religions are good in essence as they are built upon the ideals of inspiration, enlightenment, and the general sense of doing good and respecting one's fellow human beings and themselves. Do I believe in all the 'magical' bits? No. I can clearly see through worldly scientific knowledge that none of that is physically probable. I do however believe that there is something out there, somewhere, somehow that created us, and I can just as easily turn the tables and see through the lack of universal scientific knowledge that this is possible. I classify my self as agnostic :P
6 years ago
Nice one yak.
And Agnostic's are coward Atheists
6 years ago
You forget, Yak. The religious are impervious to logic!
6 years ago
Ill take that as a like oranjegoon
6 years ago
Actually, the reason Christians believe God doesn't answer prayers is because he doesn't interfere with free will. Most people pray for dying family members because they don't know what else to do. Anyone who prays for material things doesn;t know anything about their own religion.

And Santa is a bit different than Jesus. We know Santa doesn't deliver presents to children every year because presents don't appear under the tree on Christmas unless you buy them. It's a bit different than saying that God doesn't exist and didn't create the Universe. You know that Santa doesn't deliver presents every year. You don't know that there isn't a Heaven or that the Universe wasn't created.
6 years ago
The thing I dont understand is the people who say that god doesnt answer prayers based on the assumption that if he did, everyone would get exactly what they want. The last time I checked an answer can be 'yes' or 'no'...
6 years ago
Couple things hotshot.. tell my 4 year old Santa doesn't exist Santa was used an example to show how crazy it would be to believe in such nonsense, and how arguments could be made to justify his existence... secondly pray all you want, many claim god has cured cancer, brought people back from comas, paralyzed people walking again, deaf people hearing, blind people seeing... they will say god is great my relative is healed it must be gods will.. But never ever has anyone ever grown back a severed limb, not even a finger, toe, or something like a ripped of head.. so why will he cure some things but not amputees? does he hate amputees...
6 years ago
I thought there was a T-shirt withe the slogan : God hates Amputees or something like that.

AND someone didn't like my joke ...
6 years ago
He is a merciful god, unfortunetly his creations don't see eye to eye.
6 years ago
And some of his creations are assholes.
6 years ago
^
one of the some
6 years ago
Wait, what are you blaming me for?
6 years ago
gingervitis
6 years ago
So I can blame you for obesity?
6 years ago
only if we blame paula dean for diabetes
6 years ago
I blame Paula Dean for my excessive use of kleenex and ky.
6 years ago
gross
6 years ago
Given that she uses about a pound of butter in ever recipe, I think I'll blame her for obesity.

I'll blame you for my package taking forever.
6 years ago
you didn't hear paula came out and said 3 years ago she was diagnosed with type 2, and that's fair smerf
6 years ago
Is she dead yet?...no...lemme fuck her....
6 years ago
No Drum, I didn't. Not that I care, unless she's trying to take over Wilfred Brimleys job.
6 years ago
or maybe there's more than one god, an they all laugh at how their creations squabble over petty mortal problems

that's why i'm a warlock
6 years ago
whats the differance between you and harry potter?
6 years ago
Harry Potter is AWESOME...that's the difference.
6 years ago
if by awesome you mean sissy queer bate, then yeah
6 years ago
says the guy who shoves star wars toys up his ass...
6 years ago
i don't have any star wars toys... anymore. and nothing goes up my ass, thank you very much!
6 years ago
finally i made it to the end of this post
6 years ago
so hooked on phonics did work for you?
6 years ago
nope i just like to look at the colorful pictures :)
6 years ago
lol
6 years ago
fucking hell man good sub :)


thank the goddess im wiccan lol
6 years ago
lol
6 years ago
Retard.
6 years ago
heathen
6 years ago
the correct term zeke is pegan but ill let you slide this time haha
6 years ago
whats wrong there urkybot your christian narrow mindedness refuses to accept somebody of another faith?
fucking twat
6 years ago
actually, the correct term crash is pagan, but I'll let you slide as well
6 years ago
Pegan: The Church Of The Holey Dildo
6 years ago
Lol @ that tard assuming I'm christian. Or religious at all.
6 years ago
regardles of the fact of you being religious or not urkel your still a a fucking twat
6 years ago
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
6 years ago
"Religion is like a penis. It's okay to have one, and it's okay to be proud of it; but don't wave it around in public, and don't try to shove it down people's throats."
6 years ago
exactly zek
6 years ago
I cannot read all of that! Holy fuck!
6 years ago
we all have a choice in life, to choose wheather or not to believe in god or not to, doesnt mean he doesnt exist doesnt mean he doesnt, its freewill....so mabye there is a god i choose to believe in somthin bigger than me and that things were made for a purpose and not just happened by accident
6 years ago
but i do smoke alot of weed!
6 years ago
well thanks for that, but I didn't want to read it becuase its too fuckin long!
6 years ago
God made it...smoke away
6 years ago
yea and your god gave you a choice
n u came to mucho
6 years ago
Mucho IS God
6 years ago
If theres a sinle thing you can say about religion thats good its not worth hearing.
6 years ago
that was definitely worth hearing
6 years ago
without religion you get chaos
with religion you get chaos
its a no win situation
6 years ago
actually with religion you get shit loads of killing, raping, and molesting with an extra pinch of preaching..
6 years ago
without religion there would have been a heck of a lot less wars thats for sure
6 years ago
^ I call bullshit on that.
6 years ago
Pretty sure we'd have all of that either way. People are assholes.
6 years ago
More people have been killed in the name of "god" than for any other reason.
6 years ago
We sure would have wars without religion, I will never deny that. BUT if people wouldn't believe they would go to some nice place if they blew themselves up or killed the others and maybe die in the process. They would be much less ready to go fight ... So there would be less war, I am sure of that.
6 years ago
So basically the main reason you hate religion is that they oppose your desire to suck dick and marry another man?
6 years ago
someones projecting^
6 years ago
The main reason is because it's a lie that is used to control you, get your faith, money, and your unconditional trust. And it's up to a person if he wants to suck dick, and sure not some elderly, child mollesting men in dresses.
6 years ago
fuck atheists
6 years ago
hey fuck you buddy
6 years ago
you cant say there is a god, just as you cant say there isnt
because you dont know
agnosticism is the real deal!
6 years ago
Any god who would have created us is clearly unfit for worship.
6 years ago
lol
6 years ago
even if god wuz real hes done some pretty fucked up shit
6 years ago
That's just leaving the door open cause you are scared there might be a god that will be angry at you for not believing in him. Take a side ... Either it exists either it doesn't. There is no maybe.
6 years ago
no i just say whether or not he exists is unimportant to my life
6 years ago
*it
6 years ago
also something must have "invented" the system we live in, something must have made the system how it is now ya get me?
6 years ago
you simplejack
6 years ago
'the system' was created long ago, by forces unknown to us. Everything is chaos. We perceive the patterns in the chaos as order. That order then gets attributed to some outside force because of a lack of understanding. That's when god was created
6 years ago
Nice one drum.
lol @ something invented the system.
If the system was different, unsuitable for us, we wouldn't be here to question why it's suitable.
And the fact if there is a god or not is indeed unimportant for your life. But yet you ask yourself where we came from and think it's some kind of inventor ? Are you sure you are even an agnostic ?
6 years ago
the unknown forces drum talks about is my understanding of god
6 years ago
something must be the reason that there is a universe and not nothing
6 years ago
and it has no influence on my life... im pretty sure thats what agnosticism is
6 years ago
What do you mean by reason ? An intelligent being ? Or just a random imbalance ?
For me there is just no reason why we are here. We just are here. A chain of events. But no real reason. Just a cause.
6 years ago
i cant tell, maybe an intelligent being that doesnt know we are here in the first place maybe not, for all i know the universe could be anything
6 years ago
the universe is just a tiny bubble in an infinitely vast plane of existence we cant begin to fathom. until humans can fully understand everything (will never happen) there will always be a need for a fantastic explanation that religion will fulfill
6 years ago
whats outside that tiny bubble?
6 years ago
:D
6 years ago
well theorist call it the multiverse but religious people call it "god"
6 years ago
when i say universe i mean all of it... lol theorist thats the same we do right now ... theory
6 years ago
That's quite nicely put. But I don't need the fantastic explanation ? For me it's just, we don't know yet but let's try to find out. Rather then it has to be a creator and we cannot question him. Furthermore it should matter a little so you keep trying to find out what that plane of existence is.
6 years ago
well the "universe" isnt all of it, by any means. its just what we can see, which isn't much at all. everything else is either a theory or "god"
6 years ago
the difference is science tries to find answers to questions... religion tries to make people believe things without needing to question or trying to find answers
6 years ago
See that is just a mistake, speaking about outside. There is no outside ... That's a 3 dimensional thinking, we can't just imagine more then 3 dimensions, and there are 10. (or 11 if you go for the string theory) Once you get there, outside has no meaning.
6 years ago
not a need individually, maybe. but collectively humans will always want an explanation for everything and what they cant prove through their senses they fabricate with their minds. some people use the scientific method to fabricate and some use their imagination. it all depends on whos theory becomes widely accepted as "fact"
6 years ago
right low, but most people cant grasp that concept so we use laments terms like "outside" to help them understand
6 years ago

im BB and i approve this message
6 years ago
*laymans, damn firefox dictionary...
6 years ago
i just as because you said its a bubble, if youd say its an endless room id be fine
6 years ago
*asked
6 years ago
Have you ever seen the animation on why there is only 10 dimensions ? It's pretty good. I've seen some stuff on how they came to the 11 dimensions because of problems with the string theory. I kinda can grasp a little what they are talking about, but I lack the mathematical skills and brain power to play around with the ideas like those mathematicians and physisits do ... I envy them sometimes :(
6 years ago
well it is, the current theory that most scientist accept is that the universe isnt really infinite but is a "bubble" they still believe that the multiverse (full of other universe bubbles) is infinite though
6 years ago
do you believe this theory?
6 years ago
yeah, me too. low. i am just smart enough to know why, but not the how. the people that come up with that shit are really on a different level from normal people
6 years ago
so we are bathing foam then
6 years ago
yes, bling. bath foam. humans are nothing special and neither is our universe, apparently
6 years ago
i know its not special you say that as if i was a believer :(
6 years ago
Bling what's a theory to you ?
To me it's an explanation of observations that holds out until the observations no longer can be explained by the theory. So do I believe it ? Yes until it's proven wrong.
6 years ago
i should have made myself more clear *clears throat* you say that as if i believe in a omnipotent god
6 years ago
my mistake
6 years ago
hehe bongwater south park reference
6 years ago
i dont mind religion at all
...i tried three or four mice elf

believing in a god doesn't automatically make you an idiot
...trying to make someone else beleive what you do, though?

yup
6 years ago
How did the saying go?

Why should God keep us from doing evil when we're capable of keeping ourselves from doing it?

That's a valid argument even if you don't believe in God.
6 years ago
no, no - the saying went: "Stop playing with that or God will make it fall off!"
6 years ago
The best saying here was:

"My name was not Eric. It was Faggot"
6 years ago
believing in a god makes you ignorant yes... does it make you a bad person? no

learning about religions of course is a completely other story... since there is never enough logic and wisdom someone can have
6 years ago
The problem with that is that religion has nothing to do with logic or wisdom.
5 years ago
It helps you make wise and logical assumptions about the people who believe in them though.
5 years ago
Good point.
5 years ago
LOL @DoubleC...possibly the only Christian/Muslim...in which case this website is probably too offensive for you.
6 years ago
I'm certainly not a Muslim and a very lapsed Christian. I downvoted it primarily because it's too damn long, and, seriously, if ya haveta try this hard to prove your point maybe it's not the sure thing you think it is...
6 years ago
I guess you got lots of time on your hands to put that together
6 years ago
atheists fuck better, so there is no need for religion. basta
6 years ago
I'm a moron and I don't believe in god.
6 years ago
The words I live by: "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." — Marcus Aurelius
6 years ago
The words I live by: "Don't be an asshole." -Smerf.
6 years ago
* DushanMandik faints at the sight of billyboots saying something that is intelligent. *
6 years ago
It was Marcus Aurelius who said it ;) Nevertheless it's quite nice.
6 years ago
Why the hate for a poor social studies teacher?
6 years ago
the amount of teachers on mucho disturbs me
6 years ago
...because you're a social studies teacher.

HARD SCIENCE, BITCHES!
6 years ago
I say this was a good read
6 years ago
sometimes MS doth surprise
6 years ago
fucking sheeple
6 years ago
Jeez thats a lot of religious hate
6 years ago
fuck religion and politics
5 years ago
recover password
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